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agoodwinsmithSo, back on 27 Feb 16, Andrew Ducker posted this:
hmm ... I will try inserting it again later. Second try equally fruitless. Third no better. No, cannot add the photo of the chart. I will try again from work on Monday. Woof - this is the "reduced" size. Sheesh.
you can see his post here:
http://andrewducker.livejournal.com/3416650.html
and I made a comment (I've copied my comment here as the first comment below).
The general gist was that I identify myself as part of the lower class (living paycheque to paycheque as I do), and that I think a lot of people falsely place themselves in the middle class category. I don't mean they are lying; I mean that they are self-deluded.
Anyway. I know this chart was developed by do-gooders wanting to make themselves feel better by providing the kind of superficial help that doesn't change the charity-recipient's circumstances enough to make them eligible to be invited to dinner at the charity-giver's home. And I find it interesting that it has raised a lot of hackles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_K._Payne ),so is it wrong or encroaching on received wisdom? Dunno. It seems like a useful starting place.
What I now find intriguing is that it can be a useful tool in the opposite direction. If I am a person from the class of poverty, and I am making something I want to sell to the classes that are wealthier than me, then treating my customers the way I want to be treated will not work at all. If I wish to make an application for a loan for a business, it is likely that the things I stress as proof of worthiness will not be of interest. I think on paper I would be able to pay attention to the concerns of those I am petitioning, but in face to face life I would not be able to maintain that approach. And making a joke to prove that I wasn't taking myself seriously (poor person's faux pas) would only prove to those I am petitioning that I am not taking the situation seriously (wealth faux pas).
I am thinking about this because a friend of mine has been struggling to launch their business, and I have come to the conclusion that they are providing a luxury service but approaching people who need bargains. Given my background I have no idea how to help them be noticed by the people who will pay for the service. Ruby Payne's chart helps me think about it.
Canada pretends it doesn't have a class system. Canada is also self-deluded.
hmm ... I will try inserting it again later. Second try equally fruitless. Third no better. No, cannot add the photo of the chart. I will try again from work on Monday. Woof - this is the "reduced" size. Sheesh.
you can see his post here:
http://andrewducker.livejournal.com/3416650.html
and I made a comment (I've copied my comment here as the first comment below).
The general gist was that I identify myself as part of the lower class (living paycheque to paycheque as I do), and that I think a lot of people falsely place themselves in the middle class category. I don't mean they are lying; I mean that they are self-deluded.
Anyway. I know this chart was developed by do-gooders wanting to make themselves feel better by providing the kind of superficial help that doesn't change the charity-recipient's circumstances enough to make them eligible to be invited to dinner at the charity-giver's home. And I find it interesting that it has raised a lot of hackles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_K._Payne ),so is it wrong or encroaching on received wisdom? Dunno. It seems like a useful starting place.
What I now find intriguing is that it can be a useful tool in the opposite direction. If I am a person from the class of poverty, and I am making something I want to sell to the classes that are wealthier than me, then treating my customers the way I want to be treated will not work at all. If I wish to make an application for a loan for a business, it is likely that the things I stress as proof of worthiness will not be of interest. I think on paper I would be able to pay attention to the concerns of those I am petitioning, but in face to face life I would not be able to maintain that approach. And making a joke to prove that I wasn't taking myself seriously (poor person's faux pas) would only prove to those I am petitioning that I am not taking the situation seriously (wealth faux pas).
I am thinking about this because a friend of mine has been struggling to launch their business, and I have come to the conclusion that they are providing a luxury service but approaching people who need bargains. Given my background I have no idea how to help them be noticed by the people who will pay for the service. Ruby Payne's chart helps me think about it.
Canada pretends it doesn't have a class system. Canada is also self-deluded.
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comment on Andrew Ducker's post from 27 Feb 16
Date: 2016-03-13 09:55 am (UTC)I would change the categories to No Wealth, Some Wealth, Large Wealth because "middle class" is a bastardized term that everyone who doesn't have a hereditary title thinks they belong in. No: middle class meant the owners of the means of production who were not noble The middle class did not live month to month on a wage based on their own output.
And I'd like to tighten up the humour category because all three are about people. The first one is about human body function, the second is about human situations, and the third is about human social knowledge.
And I think the column one wants to subdivide shows which one a person started in. I want to subdivide the first one because while I live paycheque to paycheque, and I have developed a jokey presentation style to ingratiate my introverted personality with the social sphere I in which operate, and I believe in marrying for love, and I come from a family and married into a family where the women are the power beside the throne (important though: it is very necessary to have a figurehead; solitary matriarchy is not powerful unless widowed), but in spite of those things I feel that there are many who have less wealth than I do and suffer more troubles than I do.
I think too, that getting rid of the middle class label also allows us to see that there is more fluidity of individuals between the columns since it is a continuum and that individuals travel down as well as up.
I could go on because what about children and what about humor involving words and what about art (decoration + critique) and what about .... But really, this is a useful chart to get one started to think and discuss and unsettle certainty.